[man does this radical transparency thing kind of suck actually. he pauses, puts his things down and just stares off into space for a moment. he isn't angry or-- hurt, even. Just sad. He doesn't know what to do except be sad anymore.]
That's what's been said, isn't it? That nothing would work.
[Ugh. She doesn't mean to keep saying things that make him sad all over again, except - isn't that what he said helped before? That you should just feel it?
She puts a hand on his arm.]
I told you, I asked Wrath about this a bit ago, when we were having one of our cryptic conversations where I was being cynical and she didn't protest very hard. She said she didn't understand how the indulgence generation conversion to wishes works, but that she understands that it can do things that are beyond the ordinary capacity of this place. Lust said the same thing; that she didn't tell you it wasn't possible to save her because she doesn't believe that it is impossible.
This tracks to me, because many of us are asking for things that this place could not ordinarily give us. For example, much of which can be done with boons here I can do myself, and would have not needed to come here to achieve. [Guess what, Molly, you bitch. Unlike her, you know she's also here for someone whose soul has theoretically been destroyed.]
[. . .] The fact that you insist on being pessimistic about this is frankly all right, and it's what I'd do, too. But I'm going to keep correcting you on it all the same. [Because he really did decide to grab her and refuse to let go until she went along with a little of his optimism, and why would he have done that if he didn't think it was the right thing to do.]
[He doesn't move the arm away or anything, and his voice is steady at least.]
I told you, I haven't given up. I intend to see it through to the end. I really have no option but that. And there's no option where we leave the way this place probably intended: betraying the Avatars, letting the creature continue as it was, doing whatever it liked in the manner it has been. Clearly it's a little too obsessed with the people I care about.
So I'm not pessimistic. I have no choice except to be the opposite. I'm just sad, Harrow.
[It's fine, he doesn't have to feel bad. She just knows she's intensely awkward about this sort of thing and not particularly warm and comforting. Squeezing his hand back.]
. . . I don't really know what to do or say. You've helped me with so many things. I'd very much like to just go yell at someone over it, which I did do a little of and it didn't wind up being very helpful, or fix it, which I can't currently do.
[Probably the funniest person to go yell at about this, except for maybe Sloth!]
Though I wasn't nearly as mean as I could have been, because she was disappointingly not into it. [Sometimes you really just want to fight someone but they won't fight with you back so what's even the point.] I did get her to call me a bitch, so that was nice.
[The really nasty fact in all this is Harrow probably wouldn't have minded any of these Avatar shadiness reveals if they hadn't also really hurt her friend's feelings. Sometimes you're just a ride or die bitch.]
Greed, Pride, Lust, Despair. I texted Wrath, but I haven't talked to her yet; I figured everything important I'd learn from her has already been said.
[Harrow, maybe you can just talk to people for reasons other than to learn things? Anyway. She sounds really relieved - ]
Greed is reasonable in all this. His name wasn't coming up as one of the 'sympathetic' ones because he's not of the position that sacrificing the Avatars is a good plan, either. Which is my position, too.
Pride. . . is exactly what we expected, which is that he isn't willing to give up on a chance to save his wife. I don't think we'll convince him to change course through any means but an actual plan with a possibility of success, but I think if we had such a plan it wouldn't be out of the question; it isn't as though he actively wants us dead.
Despair is harder to get a read on. I don't think he's actually as motivated by obtaining his wish as Pride is, so much as he is a pragmatic person and isn't likely to be motivated by appeals to our plight. Again, I think it will be a matter of finding another option ourselves and convincing him that our reasoning is logical and not contrary to his goals.
So - that puts us in the same position as before. Find another way out of here, indulge, et cetera. I don't get the sense we need to actively view Despair, Pride, and Gluttony as threats.
I don't know about that - I mean, I doubt they'd come after us rather than watch the proceedings, but we don't know how this works. If it just takes one of them to make the decision to pull the plug on us, or take it into their own hands.
[sorry he does not trust despair or gluttony a SINGLE LITTLE BIT.]
Anyway, I think our reasoning of "not wishing to be dead" is perfectly logical, even if it is-- sorry, what? Contrary to his goals.
If they could, wouldn't they have done so by now? We've been killing ourselves at such a slow rate. No - I think the threat is more from the creature at this point.
[. . .]
We're not going to get anywhere that way. Tell me what the ones you've talked to have said.
[he doesn't mean that like. meanly. It's just true. it isn't like he doesn't have his own sad story he just told a bunch of them.]
I don't think anything we don't know. Just that they want to help, were hoping for a different outcome, that sort of thing. The same sort of thing we're hoping for, I'm sure.
Mm. It is a little. . . Pride and Despair were going around on the first day, saying they thought we ought to kill one another. Perhaps others didn't like it, but not in any sense beyond a differing opinion.
[Which is fairly cold comfort.]
I think you ought to be as angry as you want, and ought not to forgive if you don't want. [Or forgive, if he does want? Couldn't be her.] At least in my opinion, there is not a requirement to let bygones be bygones in order to work together for a common good.
Suppose it'd have made it easier for them to make a decision if we just took care of it ourselves. Unfortunately, and despite evidence to the contrary, I actually do think it's most people's inclination not to murder each other for the most part.
[He makes a bit of a face while he considers all of that, putting his chin in his hand tapping his nails (now, a little sharper) on the tabletop, because, well, he doesn't really know where he stands?]
Don't know how I feel about the forgiveness thing or not yet. Ask me next week?
[The Endorsi crack does get a bit of a soft laugh out of him at least? But after a moment.]
I should have known weeks and weeks ago. When I saw that-- cupcake. And her hands, in my memory. I just thought ... it was torturing me with visions of them. Reminding me.
But just as with Beau, I didn't want to believe it, when the obvious was shown to me.
I saw her sketchbook-- she keeps ones. Had the list of names, her opinions on them. Writes to her god in it - a Traveler. Apparently, he wasn't listening, here.
And someone poisoned her. I asked Lust. She says they didn't know who.
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. . . Listen. I'm not saying very much. But I want you to know that. . . what happened with Aoi. . . it wouldn't have worked.
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That's what's been said, isn't it? That nothing would work.
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[Ugh. She doesn't mean to keep saying things that make him sad all over again, except - isn't that what he said helped before? That you should just feel it?
She puts a hand on his arm.]
I told you, I asked Wrath about this a bit ago, when we were having one of our cryptic conversations where I was being cynical and she didn't protest very hard. She said she didn't understand how the indulgence generation conversion to wishes works, but that she understands that it can do things that are beyond the ordinary capacity of this place. Lust said the same thing; that she didn't tell you it wasn't possible to save her because she doesn't believe that it is impossible.
This tracks to me, because many of us are asking for things that this place could not ordinarily give us. For example, much of which can be done with boons here I can do myself, and would have not needed to come here to achieve. [Guess what, Molly, you bitch. Unlike her, you know she's also here for someone whose soul has theoretically been destroyed.]
[. . .] The fact that you insist on being pessimistic about this is frankly all right, and it's what I'd do, too. But I'm going to keep correcting you on it all the same. [Because he really did decide to grab her and refuse to let go until she went along with a little of his optimism, and why would he have done that if he didn't think it was the right thing to do.]
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[He doesn't move the arm away or anything, and his voice is steady at least.]
I told you, I haven't given up. I intend to see it through to the end. I really have no option but that. And there's no option where we leave the way this place probably intended: betraying the Avatars, letting the creature continue as it was, doing whatever it liked in the manner it has been. Clearly it's a little too obsessed with the people I care about.
So I'm not pessimistic. I have no choice except to be the opposite. I'm just sad, Harrow.
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Maybe that's a poor choice of word. But you do keep talking as though there's been a final resolution. I'm not scolding you for it. But you do.
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No-- you're right.
[...]
I told you I don't understand the despair thing so well. Not a language I speak.
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. . . I don't really know what to do or say. You've helped me with so many things. I'd very much like to just go yell at someone over it, which I did do a little of and it didn't wind up being very helpful, or fix it, which I can't currently do.
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Who did you yell at?
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[Probably the funniest person to go yell at about this, except for maybe Sloth!]
Though I wasn't nearly as mean as I could have been, because she was disappointingly not into it. [Sometimes you really just want to fight someone but they won't fight with you back so what's even the point.] I did get her to call me a bitch, so that was nice.
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[this makes him so fond of both harrow and lust? terrible.]
. . . Lust was the only one to apologize to me, at least. So far.
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[The really nasty fact in all this is Harrow probably wouldn't have minded any of these Avatar shadiness reveals if they hadn't also really hurt her friend's feelings. Sometimes you're just a ride or die bitch.]
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[Harrow, maybe you can just talk to people for reasons other than to learn things? Anyway. She sounds really relieved - ]
Greed is reasonable in all this. His name wasn't coming up as one of the 'sympathetic' ones because he's not of the position that sacrificing the Avatars is a good plan, either. Which is my position, too.
Pride. . . is exactly what we expected, which is that he isn't willing to give up on a chance to save his wife. I don't think we'll convince him to change course through any means but an actual plan with a possibility of success, but I think if we had such a plan it wouldn't be out of the question; it isn't as though he actively wants us dead.
Despair is harder to get a read on. I don't think he's actually as motivated by obtaining his wish as Pride is, so much as he is a pragmatic person and isn't likely to be motivated by appeals to our plight. Again, I think it will be a matter of finding another option ourselves and convincing him that our reasoning is logical and not contrary to his goals.
So - that puts us in the same position as before. Find another way out of here, indulge, et cetera. I don't get the sense we need to actively view Despair, Pride, and Gluttony as threats.
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[sorry he does not trust despair or gluttony a SINGLE LITTLE BIT.]
Anyway, I think our reasoning of "not wishing to be dead" is perfectly logical, even if it is-- sorry, what? Contrary to his goals.
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[. . .]
We're not going to get anywhere that way. Tell me what the ones you've talked to have said.
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[he doesn't mean that like. meanly. It's just true. it isn't like he doesn't have his own sad story he just told a bunch of them.]
I don't think anything we don't know. Just that they want to help, were hoping for a different outcome, that sort of thing. The same sort of thing we're hoping for, I'm sure.
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[Which is fairly cold comfort.]
I think you ought to be as angry as you want, and ought not to forgive if you don't want. [Or forgive, if he does want? Couldn't be her.] At least in my opinion, there is not a requirement to let bygones be bygones in order to work together for a common good.
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[He makes a bit of a face while he considers all of that, putting his chin in his hand tapping his nails (now, a little sharper) on the tabletop, because, well, he doesn't really know where he stands?]
Don't know how I feel about the forgiveness thing or not yet. Ask me next week?
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[If they're all still alive next week to be able to be mad at each other or not mad at each other, she will consider that a win.
. . . Hm.]
You haven't really mentioned her.
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. . . Who? [And then he looks off.] Jester?
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[A little cautiously more than actually sarcastic. She really isn't sure she should bring it up.
Her instincts would say no? But her instincts are so bad, and he usually does bring it up.]
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I should have known weeks and weeks ago. When I saw that-- cupcake. And her hands, in my memory. I just thought ... it was torturing me with visions of them. Reminding me.
But just as with Beau, I didn't want to believe it, when the obvious was shown to me.
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Torture was not an unreasonable suspicion.
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[Anyway.]
I saw her sketchbook-- she keeps ones. Had the list of names, her opinions on them. Writes to her god in it - a Traveler. Apparently, he wasn't listening, here.
And someone poisoned her. I asked Lust. She says they didn't know who.
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Anyway, she just frowns. Ugh.]
That's awful.
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